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Darius
nečist začetnik
Pridružen/-a: 13.10. 2012, 04:39
Prispevkov: 10
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 Objavljeno: 26 Okt 2012 14:37 |
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Pravila so jasna. Ob takem primeru se plavalca brez izjeme diskvalificira, vendar ne vem, če je to možno narediti naknadno (beri po končani tekmi).
Zadnjo besedo ima vedno vrhovni sodnik, ki se posvetuje s sodniki,ki so prijavili kršitev pravil. Kar se tiče pritiskov, so enaki v vseh športih (spomnim se primera, ko je na SP neki Američan naredil očitno napačen zaveslaj, ki sta ga videla dva sodnika. Vrhovna sodnica je bila Američanka in odločila, da ja bil zaveslaj pravilen).
Dejstvo je, da kjer je človeški faktor, je vedno možna korupcija in kršenje pravil v službi višjih (denarnih) interesov. Vendar brez skrbi, teh težav pri nas (še) ni 
Pri dotičnem primeru, ki ga omenjamo, pa lahko rečem le eno: NUJNO bi bilo imeti podvodno snemanje-ker ni sodnika, ki bi s 100% gotovostjo lahko potrdil, ali je bil delfinov udarec,ali ne. Velikokrat se da videti, priznam pa, da je pri občasnih primerih nemogoče popolnoma biti prepričen, če je bil udarc pravilen.
Na žalost, je podobnih situacij v plavanju še nekaj, zato se nenazadnje ob dvomu vedno sodi v korist plavalca in se obravnava vsak primer posamično. |
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*Ana*
že čisto domači
Pridružen/-a: 17.08. 2012, 11:13
Prispevkov: 126
Kraj: LJ
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| Objavljeno: 31 Okt 2012 01:44 |
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Zdaj bom jaz povedala čist tko moje osebno mnenje. Butterfly ti misliš, da plavalni sodniki ne vedo, da prsači kršijo pravila pri delfinovem udarcu nog? Misliš, da če bi želeli ne bi tega preverili ali ne bi postavili naprave temu primerno?
Seveda bi samo hmmm....:
1. To počnejo vsi kar pomeni, da je to uradno sprejeto čeprav pravilnik FINA tega ne dovoli. Mislim, da je delfinov udarec v prsnem slogu začel izvajati kot prvi Kitajima, če ne spomin ne vara. Sedaj poleg Camerona Van Der Burgh izvaja delfinov udarec tudi italijan Scozzoli. Ni pa pri njemu to tako zelo očitno. Pa misliš, da Soni tega ne počne? Hehe..
Zanimivo bi bilo vedeti koliko diskvalifikacij pride pri naših plavalcih zaradi delfinovega udarca v prsnem slogu?! Darius po tvojih izkušnjah koliko? Je zelo prisotna ta kršitev pri nas ali niti ne? Kaj se ti zdi? Mi imamo zelo veliko prsačev v članski reprezentanci Dugonjić, Tahirović, Markič, Vozel. Sem koga pozabila? Kaj pa v nižjih razredih na regionalnih tekmovanjih kako je s tem?
2. Glih zaradi tega se zniči prednost in glede nato, da to počnejo vsi sploh ni več pomembno slednje pravilo.
Glavna težava je po mojem v tem, ker v enem pravem športu, dejansko z resnico kjer bi morala biti v nekaterih primerih toleranca 0, se mnogi bojijo spopasti. Očitno narava človeka sploh ni športno korektna. Pravilnik naredi za se mu izogniti, se dopingirati, goljufati. Za moje pojme je čista utopija doseči eno prosojnost, ker očitno ga v našem DNK ni!
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PK ILIRIJA |
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Darius
nečist začetnik
Pridružen/-a: 13.10. 2012, 04:39
Prispevkov: 10
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| Objavljeno: 31 Okt 2012 12:11 |
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Pri nas lahko rečem, da so plavalci kar disciplinirani oz. so jim očitno trenerji zabičali, da ni vredno tvegati diskvalifikacije zavoljo delfinovega udarca. Kar pa seveda en pomeni, da se (tudi vrhunski) plavalec kdaj ne (pomotoma?) spozabi. Takrat je, kot običajno, stvar vrhovnega sodnika.
Spomnim pa se, da smo pred nekaj leti na Mobitelu v Radovljici ravno zaradi tega hoteli diskvalificirati plavaca Ilirije, vendar je bil vrhovni tedanji vodja slovenskih sodnikov pač Ljubljančan in plavalec je ostal uvrščen. To pa so seveda svinjarije (da ne uporabim kakšne hujše besede) brez primere (sploh če napako vidijo trije usposobljeni sodniki). |
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butterfly
že čisto domači
Pridružen/-a: 15.08. 2012, 10:19
Prispevkov: 216
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| Objavljeno: 31 Okt 2012 17:33 |
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| Darius je napisal/a: | | Spomnim pa se, da smo pred nekaj leti na Mobitelu v Radovljici ravno zaradi tega hoteli diskvalificirati plavaca Ilirije, vendar je bil vrhovni tedanji vodja slovenskih sodnikov pač Ljubljančan in plavalec je ostal uvrščen. To pa so seveda svinjarije (da ne uporabim kakšne hujše besede) brez primere (sploh če napako vidijo trije usposobljeni sodniki). |
Trije sodniki ste videli napako in plavalec se je izmuznil diskvalifikaciji? Sem brez besed.
To je pa svinjsko. Za bruhat. Si lahko predstavljam kako ste morali biti jezni sodniki. Ogorčeni bi se temu reklo. Zdaj hočemo vedet, kdo je bil ta plavalec? Kateri je bil? |
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PLAVALKA
že čisto domači
Pridružen/-a: 09.07. 2012, 13:47
Prispevkov: 116
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| Objavljeno: 31 Okt 2012 21:01 |
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Butterfly jaz vem kdo je bil ta plavalec, ker Darius je napisal tudi ime plavalca takoj ko je poslal objavo samo pol je ime izbrisal in nevem zakaj. Jaz imena ne bom izdala. Če želi naj ga pove on.
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We swim because we are too sexy for a sport that requires clothing! 
Swimmers are like tea-bags:
you don't know how strong they are
till you put them in the water. |
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Darius
nečist začetnik
Pridružen/-a: 13.10. 2012, 04:39
Prispevkov: 10
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| Objavljeno: 31 Okt 2012 21:45 |
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Nisem želel opletati z imeni, vendar je takrat šlo za Mankoča. Kakorkoli že, želel sem pač povedati, da se takšna in drugačna odstopanja nažalost dogajajo, vendar od takrat (tega je cca. 7 let) ne pomnim podobnega incidenta.
Dela se na temu, da se podpira strokovnost in nikakor partikularnosti oz. kdo izhaja iz katerega kluba. |
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*Ana*
že čisto domači
Pridružen/-a: 17.08. 2012, 11:13
Prispevkov: 126
Kraj: LJ
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| Objavljeno: 01 Nov 2012 13:33 |
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Čeprav je Pero moj klubski kolega se strinjam z Darius. To je čista svinjarija. Prva in zadnja upam.
Sama nimam problemov z delfinovem udarcem. Jaz še nikoli nisem bila diskvalificirana v mojem lajfu. Tok, tok potrkat na les.  Pridobiš pa s tem najmanj desetinko. Je pa ta delfinov udarec problem. Tukaj vsi kršijo pravila in sodniki pogledajo močno skozi prste. To je sedaj postala že neka rutina. FINA bi morala to pravilo spremeniti in popraviti. Pač naj bo to dovoljeno a ne.
To, da je Camerona Van Der Burgh javno priznal da je kršil pravila s tem, da je večkrat izvedel delfinov udarec je podno. Norca se dela iz pravil. Ni kaj več za reči. Ni fer do plavalcev, ki pravila upoštevajo. That's it.
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PK ILIRIJA |
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butterfly
že čisto domači
Pridružen/-a: 15.08. 2012, 10:19
Prispevkov: 216
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| Objavljeno: 27 Jul 2013 23:11 |
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| Darius je napisal/a: | | Osebno ne verjamem (ali zelo težko verjemem), da se bo kaj premaknilo v tej smeri, saj so na čelu FINE-tako kot povsod-okostenele strukture (včasih dobesedno), ki jim stanje kot je ustreza. |
Darius prav imaš. Podvodnih kamer za prsače, ki goljufajo ne bo. Očitno FINI res tako ustreza.
COMMENTARY
FINA CHOSE THE CHEATERS IN BREASTSTROKE
Published:July 26, 2013
Courtesy of: Rob Schumacher-USA TODAY Sports
FINA World Championships editorial coverage is proudly sponsored by SpeedoUSA. For all the latest coverage, check out our event coverage page.
By guest writer Julia Wilkinson-Minks (2008 & 2012 Canadian Olympian)
BARCELONA, Spain, July 26. FINA has been making some important decisions of late, including limiting the number of dolphin kicks a swimmer can take during a breaststroke pullout to one. As of today, however, it decided not to use underwater cameras as a method to enforce the latter rule, which seems to be somewhat of a paradox.
A swimmer is told they can only add a single dolphin kick in a breaststroke pullout, but it has been made clear during the past few seasons that this rule is incredibly easy to break and get away with. Cameron van der Burgh made an excellent point last summer after his Olympic victory when he admitted to taking extra kicks, knowing that if he did not, he would be at a disadvantage because others were also cheating. So, this rule breaking becomes a form of gamesmanship, where it may not necessarily be right, but a swimmer is going to do what they need to do to win, right?
Back in 2011, Canada's medley relay was disqualified in the final at World Championships. We had no idea what we had done, and stood in the mixed zone with our media attach? waiting to hear the news before we did our interview with CBC. I had swum the freestyle leg, and wondered if I had jumped; our backstroker began to stress that maybe she had kicked past the 15-meter mark.
Finally, we heard the news: at the turn end, our breaststroker had allegedly taken an extra dolphin kick during her pullout. Our two-time Olympian, NCAA Champion and World Championships finalist breaststroker had taken an extra dolphin kick and we were being disqualified because of that. She felt terrible: the rest of us felt angry. We felt like we were being centered out, an example being made of us because we had not been in medal contention. Disqualifying us would not cause any huge ripples in the swimming community, but it might send a message to other swimmers, right?
Even if my anger was simply clouding my vision and using our relay as an example was never FINA's intention, breaststrokers should not have to play this game of Russian Roulette. A swimmer should not have to make the decision that the risk of getting caught cheating is worth it, because otherwise they cannot possibly win. That sounds like another, much more dangerous problem that we see in sports.
In light of turning down the use of underwater cameras, I can't help but wonder what FINA's reasoning is. Could it possibly be because World Records are good for the sport, and maybe, just maybe, the officials are worried that if they actually enforce this rule we may not see as many world records in breaststroke?
We already took that bullet after the suits were banned (even though some world records still managed to fall in the post-polyurethane era). By simply relying on officials peering over the bulkhead to check if breaststrokers are cheating, the dolphin kicks can be easily missed. Or, at least it is easy to say they were missed.
Whether you are the favorite in the race or simply a place holder in an outside lane, everyone must be held to the same standards, and the line between gamesmanship and cheating seems to have been washed away.
Use the cameras, or allow swimmers to dolphin kick to 15 meters if they so please, because that is the way we are headed. But as long as the way of enforcing the rule is so lax, we are going to continue to see problems of this nature in the breaststroke events. Swimmers will continue to cheat and spectators will continue to gasp when they witness the blatancy of it on their television screens.
Julia Wilkinson-Minks is a two-time Olympian for Canada and was a finalist in the 200-meter IM at the 2008 Beijing Games. In 2010, she became Texas A&M's first ever NCAA champion in swimming when she won the 100-yard freestyle. She graduated from Texas A&M with a degree in Speech Communication. Julia retired from competitive swimming following the London Olympic Games and now lives in Texas with her husband Shane.
Follow her on twitter @juliah2o |
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Master78
že čisto domači
Pridružen/-a: 08.07. 2012, 21:02
Prispevkov: 334
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| Objavljeno: 27 Jul 2013 23:32 |
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Oh ti kurba jedna, in tako bodo prsači še naprej goljufali.
Ja krasno. Bravo Fina, le tako naprej. 
_________________
A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.
G. H. Hardy |
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